I'm at a loss and hope some rescue people can help.

[Luna 8,676]

My son and DIL have two dogs.  Connor (a Rottie mix they adopted as a puppy from a Dobie rescue), who is the perfect dog and Sophie, who's heritage is unknown but I would guess Australian Shepherd and "something else".  Sophie has had issues from the day they basically got stuck with her because her owner was going to have her put-down and my DIL couldn't bear the thought.

Sophie is NOT good with strangers or anyone coming to the door, even if she knows them.  Over the last 4 years she's gone for me twice and if I weren't so experienced at ready dog body language and knowing-how to deflect agression, she'd have got me, too.  They have done a great job with her, really, but she is still moderately human-aggressive and VERY dog-aggressive.  She has to be walked with a basket muzzle and kept on a short, tight lead.

I have been afraid since before Parker was born that she might well attack him.  I told my DIL that and she agreed, but I think she was just agreeing for the sake of not pissing me off.  Today she allowed - when only the women were in the room - that she would like to place Sophie but only with a family who wouldn't end-up taking her to a shelter to be put-down because they couldn't handle her.  The idea home apparently has no other dogs, no kids and a big fenced backyard for her to exercise in so she won't be exposed to other dogs.  She would insist that the "adopter" bring the dog back to them if they couldn't deal with her.

I took a deep breath and said, "I'm afraid she'll bite Parker too, which you already know.  I can put the word out, but to be completely honest NO ONE is going to adopt her when they know who her issues are.  A no-kill rescue might take her in and keep her until she passes from old age, so if you like I will look in that direction.

Realistically, Sophie is unstable and dangerous.  She is now 5 years old and has improved slightly...but I am still not at ALL comfortable with her and I would rather not have her anywhere near my Son, DIL and Grandson no matter how big my DIL's heart is.

Thoughts?

[minabey 3,687]

I sincerely hope your DIL finds a friend/family that could handle Sophie soon. I wonder though, if it's too late for Sophie to be trained out of that aggression or the family simply has too much on their plate to consider that?

I imagine a Dog Whisperer type of training facility (please don't shoot me) but I don't know what that entails apart from what I see on TV. 

Hope you guys figure out something soon. 

 

[Pawz4me 6,802]

I think it will be very, very difficult -- impossible, really -- to place her in another home.  Why would anyone take that on when there are so many stable dogs who need homes to choose from?

I don't know much about sanctuaries, other than most of them I believe require a rather hefty "donation" to take a dog.  Rescues and shelters here are over flowing with healthy, mentally stable animals.

In the meantime I'd be talking to the vet and getting her on some "chill out" medication.  I know someone who had a Boxer who was very aggressive with anyone who came to their house.  She put the Boxer on something and it really helped.  It didn't make the aggression completely disappear, but it toned it down a LOT.  I wish I could remember which drug it was.  I want to say Prozac, but I'm not positive.  I'd have this dog on something today if she were mine and I were in that situation.

The rational (realistic?) part of me says if they can't keep her she should be euthanized.  If it helps them any remind them that a dog who feels the need to be that aggressive isn't a happy dog at all.  She's no doubt stressed almost all the time.  Not a good way to live.

[Summerangel 18,997]

3 hours ago, Pawz4me said:

I think it will be very, very difficult -- impossible, really -- to place her in another home.  Why would anyone take that on when there are so many stable dogs who need homes to choose from?

I don't know much about sanctuaries, other than most of them I believe require a rather hefty "donation" to take a dog.  Rescues and shelters here are over flowing with healthy, mentally stable animals.

In the meantime I'd be talking to the vet and getting her on some "chill out" medication.  I know someone who had a Boxer who was very aggressive with anyone who came to their house.  She put the Boxer on something and it really helped.  It didn't make the aggression completely disappear, but it toned it down a LOT.  I wish I could remember which drug it was.  I want to say Prozac, but I'm not positive.  I'd have this dog on something today if she were mine and I were in that situation.

The rational (realistic?) part of me says if they can't keep her she should be euthanized.  If it helps them any remind them that a dog who feels the need to be that aggressive isn't a happy dog at all.  She's no doubt stressed almost all the time.  Not a good way to live.

I don't know if you remember me talking about my Aunts dog. The ninja chihuahua... 

The vet put her (the dog) on Prozac... Different dog while she is on it, although when my aunt tried to wean her off it ( with vets advice) without doing any training with the dog she reverted to biting and snapping again. So she back on a high dose again of Prozac. 

I'm know the Prozac makes life easier to live with her. But I'm not sure what the long term outcome is for my aunts dog. I'm guessing she can't stay on it for life??? I have no idea what the future holds. 

[Pawz4me 6,802]

1 hour ago, Summerangel said:

I don't know if you remember me talking about my Aunts dog. The ninja chihuahua... 

The vet put her (the dog) on Prozac... Different dog while she is on it, although when my aunt tried to wean her off it ( with vets advice) without doing any training with the dog she reverted to biting and snapping again. So she back on a high dose again of Prozac. 

I'm know the Prozac makes life easier to live with her. But I'm not sure what the long term outcome is for my aunts dog. I'm guessing she can't stay on it for life??? I have no idea what the future holds. 

 

Hmmm . . . I don't know why you couldn't keep a dog on it?  There are people who stay on that type of medication almost their entire lives.  But the Boxer I mentioned was already fairly elderly when she was started on it.  She'd always had aggression issues, but they got worse as she got older.  I think she'd been on it for maybe three or four years before she passed away (due to Cushing's disease).

[Missysmom 24,975]

Our last Shepard was put on Prozac when she got doggie dementia and unfortunately it made her aggressive, she wasn't an aggressive dog at all prior. The vet said it was a fairly normal reaction too, Guess you never know how a dogs gonna react to these meds.. We changed her to zanex and it worked good for her, best part was we could use it only when she needed it not have her on something all the time. I just think of that Everytime I hear or read about Prozac, it was a scary time with our girl..

[Pawz4me 6,802]

1 hour ago, Missysmom said:

Our last Shepard was put on Prozac when she got doggie dementia and unfortunately it made her aggressive, she wasn't an aggressive dog at all prior. The vet said it was a fairly normal reaction too, Guess you never know how a dogs gonna react to these meds.. We changed her to zanex and it worked good for her, best part was we could use it only when she needed it not have her on something all the time. I just think of that Everytime I hear or read about Prozac, it was a scary time with our girl..

I think dogs are just like people in this regard -- it's often a trial and error process to find which one of these types of drugs works best.  The good news is there are several that can be given to dogs.  But it does sound like Sophia would need something she could take all the time.  I'm curious why the previous owner was going to have her euthanized -- was it for aggression?

[Luna 8,676]

Sophie has been on several different meds (including Prozac) and has also been through several training facilites (one owned by a friend of mine who is a stellar trainer).  None of the meds made any noticeable difference and all the the trainers were of the opinion that she is highly unstable and should be put down.  My DIL keeps saying, "Well, it's not HER fault she's that way," and I agree but tell her, "You know, honey, not all human psychopaths are MADE - most of them are just born that way."  It's very frustrating.

[ParadiseTzu 11,275]

This obviously is a very difficult situatiin to be in! But my opinion is that Parker's safety is THE most important issue. And there are only two solutions to that. Either euthanize the dog or find what seems to be a perfect household that appears to be able to handle Sophie's issues. But if they really can handle them, in the long run, is an unknown so Sophie's future would be an unknown.  Whereas euthanasia is a humane ending to an unhappy dog's life.

[PipsMom 34,988]

What a difficult situation. Removal of the dog from the household has got to be paramount with Parker toddling around. Best to remove the dangerous situation before something happens and it will sooner or later, rather  than wishing she had done something sooner to save her baby boy if he's laying in a hospital injured or .........you know....... Bears not even speaking about

[Luna 8,676]

I did a load of "legwork" and found two rehab places (one in VA and one in NY) who will attempt to rehabilitate dogs and - if they can't - will keep them for the rest of their lives.  I advised my DIL but they have decided they only want her to go to someone local so they can be SURE Sophie won't be euthanized.  Obviously, I don't agree but I didn't say anything other than, "Well, I hope you're able to find someone."  I don't see a happy ending to this, but I hope I'm wrong.

[Amy0515 4,651]

On 5/31/2016 at 0:38 PM, Pawz4me said:

I think dogs are just like people in this regard -- it's often a trial and error process to find which one of these types of drugs works best.  The good news is there are several that can be given to dogs.  But it does sound like Sophia would need something she could take all the time.  I'm curious why the previous owner was going to have her euthanized -- was it for aggression?

My thoughts too.  When you dealing with these kinds of meds what works for one may not work for another and vice versa.  I really hope that a good solution can be found for Sophie without having to have her euthanized.  

[ParadiseTzu 11,275]

Hugs to you, Pam, for having no choice in this situation!

[Pawz4me 6,802]

Have they consulted a veterinary behaviorist?  Not just a regular vet?  If not, do you think you could convince them to see one?  It might not help, but a specialist is going to know a lot more about different types of drugs (I'm thinking maybe a combination?) and hopefully would explain the cold hard facts regarding the potential danger to Parker, the liability they could be setting themselves up to face, etc.

You have my sympathy.  This is a tough situation for any grandma to be watching, and it's even worse for you since you know dogs so well.

 

[Luna 8,676]

One of the trainers who worked with Sophie is a close friend and an animal behaviorist as well as a trainer.  She did everything she could and finally said, "This dog is unstable, untrainable and should be euthanized before someone gets hurt."  I trust Audrey absolutely.  She can have a dog doing anything she wants it to within minutes, but after her first session with Sophie she started wearing the gear they use when teaching Shutzhund training because she had narrowly-missed a couple of severe bites (she did get two minor ones).  She is NOT a Cesar Milan-type trainer (I am not a Cesar fan); she trains by positive reinforcement rather than by dominance.  I really wish they would at least TALK to the two rehabs/sanctuaries I found, but they won't.  I'll keep praying.